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Jim Raynor
Caldari Clarity of Purpose
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Posted - 2010.01.11 09:37:00 -
[1]
Okay this is an issue with caldari/missiles I have griped about for years and years and no one has really supported it. I'm glad you made this post because missiles in their current state are boring and borderline broken.
Caldari ships should get a bonus to all missiles... because missiles are missiles, you shouldn't be stuck using 1 type of missile to get your bonuses.. that's just stupid. It makes all other missile types generally undesirable.. what's the point of having 4 types of missiles when THE missile race gets a bonus to only 1 of them?
Let's racially diversify missiles, similar to drones.. kinetic should be the top end missile in terms of pure DPS.. probably followed by Amarr (Khanid of course).. then probably Minmatar/Gallente.. Could even tweak stuff like explosive velocity, explosive radius, velocity, racially.. but for overall DPS I would make the kinetic missile king, just the equivalent of thermal drones for Gallente.. I would like to see missiles be based on mostly kinetic damage with some of the other damage types mixed in.. honestly I would rather say a missiles damage would be mostly kinetic based. That would make switching missiles useful but still for the most part the missile is delivering kinetic damage.. thus ensuring Caldari ships are racially inclined to dealing kinetic damage.. maybe 60/40 ratio kinetic/other type.
I also wouldn't mind seeing missiles do more alpha damage with a slower rate of fire to compensate since missiles generally do take up more cargo space than ammo.. annnd last but not least just to really gripe it up here, I wish missiles would get better effects.. the whole shooting 1 blob of glowing crap out of your ship from the same spot gets kinda old.. I wish missiles looked cooler, seems like every other weapon in the game got effects upgrades so why not missiles? ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Clarity of Purpose
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Posted - 2010.01.11 11:01:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Gypsio III Caracal needs a bit more PG really, but it's basically alright solo and in gang.
OH GOD YES! Also, 2 lows kinda sucks needs 3-4 tbh - but that's really the fault of the tier system.
Quote: Nighthawk - too little PG (btw Astarte is worst).
Doesn't need a lot - definitely less than 150 grid.
-Liang
Way back in the day the Thorax and (i think) Maller got a third medium slot.. the Caracal got shafted IMO.. it really should have a third low slot, the third slot would almost always have to go towards a fitting module anyways.
...and yeah Nighthawk needs some +++grid... ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Clarity of Purpose
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Posted - 2010.01.11 20:55:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Jim, changing missile specs so that different types of missile damage makes different specs is a bad idea imo
I think it would make missiles more interesting personally but to each their own.
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Are you a dumb ****? Of course caldari have the weakest armor, they have the strongest shields!!! That's like saying Amarr should get their shields boosted because they're so inferior to Caldari's shields!
The only problem here is that though Caldari by far do have the best shields in the game, a huge flaw in the game right now is that 3 races ships are mostly armor based and only 1 race is shield-centric.. which is kind of annoying for RR. I never did like the whole shield tanking vs armor tanking thing.. i have to wonder why Amarr ships have shields at all.. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Clarity of Purpose
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Posted - 2010.01.12 12:55:00 -
[4]
Maybe they should just get rid of remote armor and remote shield reps and just make 1 module that repairs both.. if you have 100% armor it starts to repair shields.. ok sure its not realistic but it would get Caldari viable in RR and not the outcast.. or maybe a remote repair module that is scripted? ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Clarity of Purpose
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Posted - 2010.01.12 22:42:00 -
[5]
In all honesty the best solution would be to make missiles do roughly 60% kinetic damage and 40% damage of another type depending on the missile used then give Caldari ships a straight up damage bonus (and other applicable ships).. Caldari will still do MOSTLY kinetic but there will be some tactical advantage to swapping missiles. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Clarity of Purpose
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Posted - 2010.01.15 01:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: James Tritanius
Neither Amarr nor Gallente can pick and choose their damage types. Therefore, they are only limited to EM/Thermal and Kinetic/Thermal respectively. On the other hand, Caldari can pick and choose their damage types and, if they stick with kinetic, they get their damage bonus. This is much more desirable than a fixed damage type weapon platform, don't you think? Because, personally, I would rather have the option to trade 20% of my dps so my guns can do a more lethal damage type, wouldn't you?
Minmatar is the only other race that can choose its damage types, but this benefit is mainly introduced to offset the low dps of its guns.
Now, here's the million dollar question: Would you, Dav, support a change to missiles so they do 60% Kinetic and 40% (Thermal, EM or Explosive) and change the Caldari Ship bonuses to apply to every missile? This solution also solves the two problems you've listed.
You are either and IDIOT or a TROLL or BOTH
Drone ships can no only apply theirs bonus across all damage types they also can apply them to light, medium, heavy AND sentry drones.
Would you support a change to drone ships that means their bonus ONLY applies to their racial drones? This would mean Dominix only gets a bonus to Gallente drones.
Would you also support a change that means drone ships have a limit to the size of drone that is bonused? Frigs only bonus light drones, cruisers only bonus medium drones and battleships only bonus heavy and sentry drones?
Seems balanced right Braniac?
If you want to jump into the way back machine.. when drones were originally overhauled (15 deployed max to 5) the Dominix/Vexor/ect all had their drone bonus changed to THERMAL drones only.. it never made TQ because of screaming protesting.. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Clarity of Purpose
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Posted - 2010.01.16 05:54:00 -
[7]
i don't really understand the argument against removing the kinetic only bonus and replacing it with a rate of fire or all missile damage for caldari missile ships
i mean, a raven can do any damage type, does a lot of dps with torpedoes (granted cruise missiles blow right now), and is not considered to be overpowered
somehow a caracal/kestrel/ect with a rate of fire bonus or damage to all bonuses, would be?
where is the logic in that?
the whole 'racial damage' thing is stupid, projectiles do a myriad of damage, minmatar do not get a bonus to damage types, nor does any other race, they get a bonus to their WEAPONS, not the freaking ammo.. yes T2 resists are supposed to boost the ships defenses against their racial enemy and that's fine but still it's silly to say caldari should be the missile race and most of their ships only get a bonus to 1 out of 4 of missile types.
so yes, caldari should have, depending on the ship, a bonus to rate of fire, missile damage, or both. honestly for most ships i'd be in favor of missile damage, as it conserves missiles
gallente drone ships do not get a bonus to only thermal drones, yes they are generally the most favorable drone but they still are fully capable of fielding any type of drone and getting full bonuses
minmatar ships do not get a bonus to only fusion ammo (mostly explosive) by the same argument as people are using against missiles you could easily say that minmatar should only receive their bonus when using explosive ammo or a gallente ship when using a thermal drone, but this is not the case, so why are caldari stuck with using 1 type of missile? why do we lose our ship bonus when we switch damage types to gain tactical advantage? missiles already have enough going against them in pvp, can we at least have our bonuses no matter which missile we use?
oh well that's my two cents ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.18 16:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: James Tritanius Edited by: James Tritanius on 18/01/2010 15:47:10 Okay, we can argue all day and dodge the real issue here.
Your core premise in your argument is that;
Caldari Missile Boats with the +5% Kinetic Damage Bonus are underpowered.
Please demonstrate it.
I think the biggest issue to me is that hybrids/lasers do 2 damage types, projectiles it varies obviously but with a lot of caldari ships you are stuck with only 1 damage type or you lose all your bonuses that and the bonuses are not very streamlined because a few ships can shoot any missile of any type and retain bonuses but it seems like for some reason a lot of other caldari missile ships can't. i just dont see the point i suppose if it's good enough for the raven, sac, phoon, ect it should be ok for the caracal, drake, cerberus, ect, none of those ships are really overpowered, maybe cept the drake.. but i would just say it's a good ship and one of the few viable caldari soloboats so nerf it if you must but it's not like we have a whole wide range of selection really, drake is about as easy as it gets and it get substantially more difficult after that to fit a tackle on a caldari ship
switching your ammo really shouldn't cost you your ship bonus, and missiles could use the versatility considering how lacking they are right now (yes i know they rock the PvE but Raven variants already don't lose DPS swapping missiles who cares its a moot point) ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.18 23:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: James Tritanius
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: James Tritanius Edited by: James Tritanius on 18/01/2010 15:47:10 Okay, we can argue all day and dodge the real issue here.
Your core premise in your argument is that;
Caldari Missile Boats with the +5% Kinetic Damage Bonus are underpowered.
Please demonstrate it.
I think the biggest issue to me is that hybrids/lasers do 2 damage types, projectiles it varies obviously but with a lot of caldari ships you are stuck with only 1 damage type or you lose all your bonuses that and the bonuses are not very streamlined because a few ships can shoot any missile of any type and retain bonuses but it seems like for some reason a lot of other caldari missile ships can't. i just dont see the point i suppose if it's good enough for the raven, sac, phoon, ect it should be ok for the caracal, drake, cerberus, ect, none of those ships are really overpowered, maybe cept the drake.. but i would just say it's a good ship and one of the few viable caldari soloboats so nerf it if you must but it's not like we have a whole wide range of selection really, drake is about as easy as it gets and it get substantially more difficult after that to fit a tackle on a caldari ship
switching your ammo really shouldn't cost you your ship bonus, and missiles could use the versatility considering how lacking they are right now (yes i know they rock the PvE but Raven variants already don't lose DPS swapping missiles who cares its a moot point)
You do realize I have already won if your whole argument is "Caldari Missile Boats aren't overpowered so it's okay to boost them."
they could use a pvp boost, the current mechanics of how missiles apply damage justifies it, in my opinion ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.19 22:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: James Tritanius
Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Edited by: Doccia Ellicis on 19/01/2010 18:52:42 Not supported as a Caldari missile user. My kinetic bonused Caracals and Drakes can already own missions at their respective levels without effort.
EDIT: nvm, I'll support this topic as it will make my ships more powerful!
At least you were honest, unlike most of the people here.
Yes because this is totally a how can I increase my ISK/HR running level 3 missions in a Drake thread, you nailed it champ. |
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 29/01/2010 20:51:33 guys i think the real point here is caldari missile boats are only doing 1 damage types where as turrets get to do 2-4 damage types and without the bonus to all missiles then the versatility of using missiles is lost, and yes overall missiles are not super great pvp weapons to begin with
and yeah drones only do 1 damage type and yeah only the gallente and minmatar drones are really worth it.. but drones don't take up slots and drone ships are pretty versatile.. and they can fit turrets too... sooo... yeah.
anyways yeah i'm all for the bonus getting changed to all missile types, i see no reason, come caldari ships already have this, some amarr too.. and it doesnt break the game
yeah you can run around with scourge missiles and just STFU and life will go on but i really think it would make more sense to get rid of the kinetic only bonus in favor of just +5% missile damage per level overall ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.02.01 18:47:00 -
[12]
I still wouldn't mind seeing missiles rebalanced to resemble drones.. each damage type missile has different damage/velocity/explosive velocity/ect.. just make the kinetics the most desirable one to use, as thermal drones are the most desirable for drone boats.. then let caldari ships have a freaking missile bonus for all missiles already. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
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